Converation thread

They don't want anyone to know how Christians are being persecuted so it can continue without backlash... makes me glad to have a hand-gun, just in case some FBI agent comes to my door & tries to kill me or something

You do realize the case was more than open in the media, right? The FBI isn’t gonna just show up to kill random people without a heck of a reason.

Most mainstream news sites tend to be focusing on foreign policy and the generally larger news issues, so a case of one person tends to go under wraps more often. The perp (if Craig Robertson from Utah is who you’re referring to), was killed by the FBI after multiple attempts to investigate before, and the continued series of death threats to the president as he was passing through the state, along with several visible threats including several different guns and sniper weaponry, all while wearing camo gear. The guy wasn’t mercilessly killed by some sort of American gestapo, the guy was threatening the president and very likely fired back, though the events directly before his death remain under wraps, everything points towards Craig being the instigator.

I', talking about Paul Vaughn, the devout Christian father of 11 who was attacked and imprisoned for praying outside an abortion facility and organising peaceful protests

The 10 years penalty is extremely harsh, I’ll agree with changing that part of the FACE act, but he was obstructing access, which, as stated in the act, is a crime.

It's not a crime, it's just against the government's will. The Law is higher than government because True Law was established by God, and it says "Thou shalt not murder."

God’s basis is not the government’s basis. Jesus also stated to “render unto Caesar that which is caesars”, and that religious belief does not trump the law

And in Exodus we read of how he approved of the first recorded act of civil disobedience in history – the midwives openly defying Pharoah's orders to kill the infants of the Hebrew slaves – and how he blessed them for their defiance to the authority of a government that respected neither life nor liberty. We cannot be 100% certain of the meaning of "under unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's" but due to the context, we know that he first asked for a Roman coin from the Pharisees, who were trying to trap Him in His words…  Read more by asking if it was lawful to pay taxes to Caesar or not, because saying yes would alienate the Jewish people and saying no would alienate the Pharisees. Why then would he make a response that clearly favoured Caesar over the Jewish people? That's how you're interpreting it. Rather, I think it is entirely possible that in showing telling them, with the Denarius in His hands, to render unto Ceasar what is Ceasers and to God what is God's, he was pointing out their hypocrisy in that Casesar's image was on the coin and they were respecting him rather than respecting God. So that whole thing that Jesus said can be interpreted other ways than meaning "pay your taxes"/

Yes, because the infant children were just that: born and alive, thereby having the right to life. Besides, that part was forced and one of the many beginnings of the freedom of the Hebrews, which remains a completely different thing than DOING something meant to prevent a parent from receiving a procedure that could possibly be medically necessary. There’s a lot of differences in those as well, along with verses (especially in Romans) about dealing with your government in a legal manner, or submitting to its rule and working change by means that aren’t illegal. I’ll admit,…  Read more the Caesar one wasn’t my best on that area, couldve probably been better used for the “taxation is theft” argument in some interpretations though. What of the “Mormonism is a cult” thing though? I’m honestly interested to hear, there’s a lot of misconceptions that the LDS church has, and regardless of my lack of belief, I hold a level of respect for them.

Mormonism, as I already said, believes that Jesus is not fully God, as he was a Created Being (look it up if you don't believe me) they believe that humans can become gods and that God was once a human, they believe that those who believe in the authority of the Bible are liars, and that the Word of God is corrupt and insufficient, they believe in salvation by works, not grace, one of their scriptures, the Book of Abraham, is said to have been copied from Egyptian hyrolglyphs but this has been proven to be false, the Mormons believe all churches but their own is "a great abominable church of the Devil" they believe Jesus & the Devil were "brothers" their "Revised" book of the Bible is a proven forgery, etc, etc. I can go on.

Yes, they believe that God is a separate person from Jesus. Jesus, god, and the Holy Ghost are three separate people in the godhead (or trinity as most call it), and Jesus was the one glorified by god, being his son, and the volunteer to be the messiah before earth was created (whole other story that YOU can read by just searching “LDS church”, and then looking for the website to ask). That’s why Jesus has his place there, because he’s the messiah and “engineer” of the word while god was the architect.

They do NOT believe god was once human, they believe…  Read more Jesus, who is the SAVIOR (not god), was once a man like any other. They don’t believe humans become god, but that they can become like him in goodness and grace, along with inheriting the infinite glory God has. They also use the Bible themselves, but believe it doesn’t tell the whole story, adding the Pearl of Great Price, the Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants as additional texts, the first two being doctrine, and the last being a direct history of Joseph’s work and the early LDS church. They don’t believe in it JUST by works, one can be a good person in this life, and after death, if they accept the gospel, they can be baptized by someone else baptizing a living person in a temple in their place. Grace can be after death too, you aren’t just screwed if you die without knowing god at all or being convinced in this world.

The reason I disagree with you is not because I didn't research on the LDS website, but because I did. Of course they claim the Book of Abraham was written by Egyptians, but that doesn't make it true. Egyptologists have extensively looked into this – The University of Chicago's James H. Breasted, said this: “[T]hese three facsimiles of Egyptian documents in the ‘Pearl of Great Price’ depict the most common objects in the Mortuary religion of Egypt. Joseph Smith’s interpretations of them as part of a unique revelation through Abraham, therefore, ver…  Read morey clearly demonstrates that he was totally unacquainted with the significance of these documents and absolutely ignorant of the simplest facts of Egyptian writing and civilization.” Flinders Petrie of London University even went so far as to say:

I wasn’t referring to its factuality, I’m out of there, that’s not what I care about, I’m saying that Joseph’s main source came from egypt. Its factuality means little to my intended purpose of the statement, which I’m actually in agreement on with you. I’m just clarifying what they do and do not believe, which you have made about 5 errors about in this thread, that’s my purpose of the conversation: to inform on their beliefs.